Girl Scout Cookies vs. City Zoning Laws
By TIMOTHY WILLIAMS
In Hazelwood, Mo., Carolyn Mills and her daughters, Abigail, 14, and Caitlin, 16, have sold Girl Scout cookies from their driveway for years. But after a neighbor complained that the cookie stand created too much traffic and was causing dogs to bark, city officials told the Millses that selling cookies there violated the city’s zoning code.
Hazelwood officials say scouts are allowed to sell cookies in the city but must go door to door or set up at a place like a grocery store parking lot (with the store’s permission). So while the front yard snack stand is one American tradition, the lawsuit is another. The girls urged the family to sue, and it did. The Mills family and Kevin O’Keefe, Hazelwood’s city attorney, discuss.
Q What do you think about having the city tell you that you could no longer operate the cookie stand?
ABIGAIL It’s like a learning experience. I don’t think it’s the best thing. I think it’s just ridiculous what they’re doing to us. It’s not like we’re even keeping the money. It’s a fund-raiser. But I thought if we sat by, they would continue picking on us and shut down all the stands operated by little girls and little boys selling lemonade.
CAITLIN When I first found out, I was thinking: “This is crazy. It’s not like we’re selling drugs on the street.”
MS. MILLS What gets me is we’ve been doing it for six years and now they’re going to shut you down. They told me if no one had complained, we would have been O.K. In the old days, you could have a lemonade stand and not worry about being shut down. Everybody likes it. We were getting return customers — four, five, six times.
Q How often had you been out selling cookies, and did you notice whether the stand was creating any problems in the neighborhood?
ABIGAIL We did it every day after school and on the weekends. From 3 to 6 on weekdays, and starting on Saturdays at noon. No one complained except once someone said a car was touching her grass. It is a pretty busy street, which is good for us, because there are lots of cars going by. But it was just normal traffic.
CAITLIN Normally people will stop in front of the driveway, get their cookies and drive away.
MS. MILLS It was only for three weeks a year, from February until early in March. There were never any traffic jams. Two or three cars would come up, but the street is wide enough where they could just pull over. There were no tie-ups.
(The sisters say they sold 1,700 to 2,000 boxes of Girl Scout cookies each year during the three-week period; this year, each box cost $3.50.)
Q Why do you think Hazelwood is pursuing this?
MS. MILLS I think it’s their pride. They’re afraid of saying they were wrong. I wish they would just say, “We were wrong,” but I don’t think they will now. We’re not even drug dealers, but I guess we’re easier to catch. As long as the girls aren’t harming anyone, why don’t they leave it alone?
Mr. O’Keefe, the city attorney:
Q Can you sum up Hazelwood’s position?
A I’m not sure how much you know about zoning, but one of the principles is you live over there, you work over there, you shop over there. Not never the twain shall meet, but those are the general limitations. The prohibition against conducting sales in residential areas is to protect the peace and repose of residential neighborhoods.
Girl Scouts selling in Hazelwood has never been a problem. They have probably been selling cookies in Hazelwood as long as there has been a Hazelwood, and there has never been a problem. It is when it gets to the point where a neighbor’s privacy and peace was intruded upon that it becomes a problem, and that’s what happened here.
Q Some people may perceive this as big, bad government going too far. What would you say to them?
A We didn’t pursue anyone. We told them you can’t run a business in your front yard. They said, “Oh,” and stopped.
They then applied for a business license. We said, “No, you can’t have a business license to run a business out of your home.” It’s not as if we ran around in our jackboots stomping on them. They sued. That’s what happened.
The city is routine in Hazelwood and everywhere else: “You crossed the line, you are going too far, you can’t do this anymore.” The citizen stops. That’s it. We’re done.
We don’t get to pick and choose who ought to be allowed to run a business out of a residence based on our sympathy to a cause. The government can’t do that. Who can we say no to?
Q The law aside, does going after Girl Scouts make you feel a little Grinch-like?
A Personally, would I prefer some people not to try to make something out of it that it’s not? Yes. Am I embarrassed to defend the principles and to consider them important? No.
Hazelwood officials say scouts are allowed to sell cookies in the city but must go door to door or set up at a place like a grocery store parking lot (with the store’s permission). So while the front yard snack stand is one American tradition, the lawsuit is another. The girls urged the family to sue, and it did. The Mills family and Kevin O’Keefe, Hazelwood’s city attorney, discuss.
Q What do you think about having the city tell you that you could no longer operate the cookie stand?
ABIGAIL It’s like a learning experience. I don’t think it’s the best thing. I think it’s just ridiculous what they’re doing to us. It’s not like we’re even keeping the money. It’s a fund-raiser. But I thought if we sat by, they would continue picking on us and shut down all the stands operated by little girls and little boys selling lemonade.
CAITLIN When I first found out, I was thinking: “This is crazy. It’s not like we’re selling drugs on the street.”
MS. MILLS What gets me is we’ve been doing it for six years and now they’re going to shut you down. They told me if no one had complained, we would have been O.K. In the old days, you could have a lemonade stand and not worry about being shut down. Everybody likes it. We were getting return customers — four, five, six times.
Q How often had you been out selling cookies, and did you notice whether the stand was creating any problems in the neighborhood?
ABIGAIL We did it every day after school and on the weekends. From 3 to 6 on weekdays, and starting on Saturdays at noon. No one complained except once someone said a car was touching her grass. It is a pretty busy street, which is good for us, because there are lots of cars going by. But it was just normal traffic.
CAITLIN Normally people will stop in front of the driveway, get their cookies and drive away.
MS. MILLS It was only for three weeks a year, from February until early in March. There were never any traffic jams. Two or three cars would come up, but the street is wide enough where they could just pull over. There were no tie-ups.
(The sisters say they sold 1,700 to 2,000 boxes of Girl Scout cookies each year during the three-week period; this year, each box cost $3.50.)
Q Why do you think Hazelwood is pursuing this?
MS. MILLS I think it’s their pride. They’re afraid of saying they were wrong. I wish they would just say, “We were wrong,” but I don’t think they will now. We’re not even drug dealers, but I guess we’re easier to catch. As long as the girls aren’t harming anyone, why don’t they leave it alone?
Mr. O’Keefe, the city attorney:
Q Can you sum up Hazelwood’s position?
A I’m not sure how much you know about zoning, but one of the principles is you live over there, you work over there, you shop over there. Not never the twain shall meet, but those are the general limitations. The prohibition against conducting sales in residential areas is to protect the peace and repose of residential neighborhoods.
Girl Scouts selling in Hazelwood has never been a problem. They have probably been selling cookies in Hazelwood as long as there has been a Hazelwood, and there has never been a problem. It is when it gets to the point where a neighbor’s privacy and peace was intruded upon that it becomes a problem, and that’s what happened here.
Q Some people may perceive this as big, bad government going too far. What would you say to them?
A We didn’t pursue anyone. We told them you can’t run a business in your front yard. They said, “Oh,” and stopped.
They then applied for a business license. We said, “No, you can’t have a business license to run a business out of your home.” It’s not as if we ran around in our jackboots stomping on them. They sued. That’s what happened.
The city is routine in Hazelwood and everywhere else: “You crossed the line, you are going too far, you can’t do this anymore.” The citizen stops. That’s it. We’re done.
We don’t get to pick and choose who ought to be allowed to run a business out of a residence based on our sympathy to a cause. The government can’t do that. Who can we say no to?
Q The law aside, does going after Girl Scouts make you feel a little Grinch-like?
A Personally, would I prefer some people not to try to make something out of it that it’s not? Yes. Am I embarrassed to defend the principles and to consider them important? No.
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